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	<title>Comments for Mathematics under the Microscope</title>
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	<description>Atomic objects, structures and concepts of mathematics</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 11:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Why is arithmetic difficult? by misha</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/why-is-arithmetic-difficult/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>misha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 03:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-175</guid>
		<description>In my previous comment: "...not making enough with something outside of the formalism" should be  "...not making enough connections with something outside of the formalism." sorry for sloppy editing</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my previous comment: &#8220;&#8230;not making enough with something outside of the formalism&#8221; should be  &#8220;&#8230;not making enough connections with something outside of the formalism.&#8221; sorry for sloppy editing</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why is arithmetic difficult? by misha</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/why-is-arithmetic-difficult/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>misha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 03:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-174</guid>
		<description>Sasha: Giving more examples, as you suggested, would certainly help, but I'm not sure it's the best way to explain. With your suggestion, here we go again, theorem-proof-example or fact-example approach again, formalizing too early, not giving enough explanations of where the formalism came from, not making enough with something outside of the formalism.  After all, what does it mean to explain? Doesn't it mean to point out a connection to something that the student already knows? Whay does it mean to understand something? Doesn't it mean to make a connection to something else that we are already familiar with? What does it mean to master a topic? Doesn't it mean to make enough connections it with the other topics, how to use the developed tools to solve problems, to freely go from one formulation to the other?   

I suspect that EHK had not been exposed enough to the &lt;a href="http://letsplaymath.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/word-problems-in-russia-and-america/" rel="nofollow"&gt;word problems&lt;/a&gt; that would connect the formal addition to something familiar to a child, would give her some informal ways of thinking about addition, rather than in terms of counting to 7 and then continue counting 5 more times to get to 7+5. Such a sipmle problem as "there are 2 baskets of apples, 5 apples in one and 7 apples in the other, how many apples are in two baskets together?" would make clear that addition is commutative. Thinking about addition in terms of adding lengths (like putting one stool on top of the other, how high the top of the stool on top will be?) would also help.

My diagnosis: too many topics and factoids taught in isolation, too much mechaniccal drilling, too few informal explanations, too few connections with other topics and subjects, too few word problems. After all, the bulk of our brain is made of connections, that's what makes us smart. Teaching should be easy on facts and heavy on connections between the facts, on explanations of these facts, on letting students think about what they learn and letting them find their own explanations and connections, on figuring things out. The most interesting thing about something new is usually not the fact itself, but some innovative way to get to it, some novel way to figure it out. Unfortunately it's not what is discussed in most of the articles and textbooks, especially in mathematics, the true springs of discovery and understanding are obscured by dry formalism and heavy terminology.

And now we are wondering why education, the way it is, doesn't work so well. It's like cutting out a big part of a frog's brain and then wondering why it doesn't jump. Calculus, by the way, is a prime example of this phenomenon.

To EHK: I see I guessed it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sasha: Giving more examples, as you suggested, would certainly help, but I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s the best way to explain. With your suggestion, here we go again, theorem-proof-example or fact-example approach again, formalizing too early, not giving enough explanations of where the formalism came from, not making enough with something outside of the formalism.  After all, what does it mean to explain? Doesn&#8217;t it mean to point out a connection to something that the student already knows? Whay does it mean to understand something? Doesn&#8217;t it mean to make a connection to something else that we are already familiar with? What does it mean to master a topic? Doesn&#8217;t it mean to make enough connections it with the other topics, how to use the developed tools to solve problems, to freely go from one formulation to the other?   </p>
<p>I suspect that EHK had not been exposed enough to the <a href="http://letsplaymath.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/word-problems-in-russia-and-america/" rel="nofollow">word problems</a> that would connect the formal addition to something familiar to a child, would give her some informal ways of thinking about addition, rather than in terms of counting to 7 and then continue counting 5 more times to get to 7+5. Such a sipmle problem as &#8220;there are 2 baskets of apples, 5 apples in one and 7 apples in the other, how many apples are in two baskets together?&#8221; would make clear that addition is commutative. Thinking about addition in terms of adding lengths (like putting one stool on top of the other, how high the top of the stool on top will be?) would also help.</p>
<p>My diagnosis: too many topics and factoids taught in isolation, too much mechaniccal drilling, too few informal explanations, too few connections with other topics and subjects, too few word problems. After all, the bulk of our brain is made of connections, that&#8217;s what makes us smart. Teaching should be easy on facts and heavy on connections between the facts, on explanations of these facts, on letting students think about what they learn and letting them find their own explanations and connections, on figuring things out. The most interesting thing about something new is usually not the fact itself, but some innovative way to get to it, some novel way to figure it out. Unfortunately it&#8217;s not what is discussed in most of the articles and textbooks, especially in mathematics, the true springs of discovery and understanding are obscured by dry formalism and heavy terminology.</p>
<p>And now we are wondering why education, the way it is, doesn&#8217;t work so well. It&#8217;s like cutting out a big part of a frog&#8217;s brain and then wondering why it doesn&#8217;t jump. Calculus, by the way, is a prime example of this phenomenon.</p>
<p>To EHK: I see I guessed it right.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why is arithmetic difficult? by EHK</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/why-is-arithmetic-difficult/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>EHK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 13:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-173</guid>
		<description>This is fascinating!  Just one thing... I think it was probably the last time I tried to think for myself at primary school. I had a wonderful teacher from age 11 who gave us problems to investigate rather than exercises from text books.  She certainly encouraged us to think for ourselves and (something which is absolutely not emphasized enough in school maths) write down our arguments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is fascinating!  Just one thing&#8230; I think it was probably the last time I tried to think for myself at primary school. I had a wonderful teacher from age 11 who gave us problems to investigate rather than exercises from text books.  She certainly encouraged us to think for ourselves and (something which is absolutely not emphasized enough in school maths) write down our arguments.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why is arithmetic difficult? by Alexandre Borovik</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/why-is-arithmetic-difficult/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexandre Borovik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 10:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Misha: yes, EHK confirms that she did not understand precisely commutativity of addition, because addition done via counting by ones did not appear to be commutative. Of course, the teacher had to help. The whole issue is HOW the teacher helps a child in this situation: in case of EHK the best solution would be to give her sufficient number of examples like 2+3, 3+2, etc. However, in most cases, the teacher uses a simplest form of proof: by intimidation. EHK told me that that was the last time she was trying to think for herself, from that unfortunate episode on she just blindly followed what teachers told her. 

At one time of my life I was involved in running maths competitions for children and the selection procedure for FMSh, Physics and Matheatics School at Novosibirsk University (a preparatory boarding school). There was a whole genre of interview problems, designed and selected to pick particular traits of mathematical thinking in the interviewees. There was an interesting subgenre of problems on "hidden counting". 

For example: a rectangle 19 by 99 is divided, by lines parallel to its sides, into $latex 19 \times 99$ equal squares. How many of these  squares does a diagonal of the rectangle intersect?   

To solve this problem, it could be useful remember that "to count" means, in the initial meaning of this world, "to count by ones". 

Elementary mathematics contains a number of hidden structures; usually they sit in ambush exactly in dangerous points where lower leve concepts and techniques are integrated into a higher level context, like counting by one into addition. Children normally jump over such stfethes of white water as salmons over a waterfal, by process of reification (you can find more on that in my book). For a teacher, it is not enough to understand psychological difficulties experienced by a child in reification, the teacher should also be able to understand mathematical difficulties involved and hidden dangers awaiting his/her pupils.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Misha: yes, EHK confirms that she did not understand precisely commutativity of addition, because addition done via counting by ones did not appear to be commutative. Of course, the teacher had to help. The whole issue is HOW the teacher helps a child in this situation: in case of EHK the best solution would be to give her sufficient number of examples like 2+3, 3+2, etc. However, in most cases, the teacher uses a simplest form of proof: by intimidation. EHK told me that that was the last time she was trying to think for herself, from that unfortunate episode on she just blindly followed what teachers told her. </p>
<p>At one time of my life I was involved in running maths competitions for children and the selection procedure for FMSh, Physics and Matheatics School at Novosibirsk University (a preparatory boarding school). There was a whole genre of interview problems, designed and selected to pick particular traits of mathematical thinking in the interviewees. There was an interesting subgenre of problems on &#8220;hidden counting&#8221;. </p>
<p>For example: a rectangle 19 by 99 is divided, by lines parallel to its sides, into <img src='http://l.wordpress.com/latex.php?latex=19+%5Ctimes+99&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='19 \times 99' title='19 \times 99' class='latex' /> equal squares. How many of these  squares does a diagonal of the rectangle intersect?   </p>
<p>To solve this problem, it could be useful remember that &#8220;to count&#8221; means, in the initial meaning of this world, &#8220;to count by ones&#8221;. </p>
<p>Elementary mathematics contains a number of hidden structures; usually they sit in ambush exactly in dangerous points where lower leve concepts and techniques are integrated into a higher level context, like counting by one into addition. Children normally jump over such stfethes of white water as salmons over a waterfal, by process of reification (you can find more on that in my book). For a teacher, it is not enough to understand psychological difficulties experienced by a child in reification, the teacher should also be able to understand mathematical difficulties involved and hidden dangers awaiting his/her pupils.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why is arithmetic difficult? by matthew</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/why-is-arithmetic-difficult/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 07:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-171</guid>
		<description>I don't think it is correct to say that in the "British model of teachers training that teachers need to know only the stuff that they pass to pupils". To be a primary school teacher you need to have a higher level pass in GCSE Maths (a much higher level than taught in primary school). To be a secondary school teacher you need to have a maths (or heavily mathematical) degree, which is again a much higher level than taught in secondary school.

The situation you describe does crop up at university level though: I recall when I was an undergraduate going to my tutor for help on an algebra problem. He replied: "look, I've not done any algebra since I was a undergrad! you know much more about it than me". It was even worse for a course on knot theory, most of which he was (understandably for someone who was an undergraduate in the 70s) completely unaware of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it is correct to say that in the &#8220;British model of teachers training that teachers need to know only the stuff that they pass to pupils&#8221;. To be a primary school teacher you need to have a higher level pass in GCSE Maths (a much higher level than taught in primary school). To be a secondary school teacher you need to have a maths (or heavily mathematical) degree, which is again a much higher level than taught in secondary school.</p>
<p>The situation you describe does crop up at university level though: I recall when I was an undergraduate going to my tutor for help on an algebra problem. He replied: &#8220;look, I&#8217;ve not done any algebra since I was a undergrad! you know much more about it than me&#8221;. It was even worse for a course on knot theory, most of which he was (understandably for someone who was an undergraduate in the 70s) completely unaware of.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why is arithmetic difficult? by misha</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/why-is-arithmetic-difficult/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>misha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 07:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-170</guid>
		<description>The poor girl hasn't figured out yet that $latex \square + 6 = 6 + \square$. I'm sure a careful teacher would have figured out what the difficulty had been and would have explaiend. As for the Peano axioms for teachers, I'm not sure that it is such a great idea, it's a bit dry. Maybe they need more practical discussions about the difficulties that the students have with arithmetics and how to help them.

To Mgccl: 4th grade calculus? What are they going to do with it? Isn't it better to develop some problem solving skills?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The poor girl hasn&#8217;t figured out yet that <img src='http://l.wordpress.com/latex.php?latex=%5Csquare+%2B+6+%3D+6+%2B+%5Csquare&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=000000&amp;s=0' alt='\square + 6 = 6 + \square' title='\square + 6 = 6 + \square' class='latex' />. I&#8217;m sure a careful teacher would have figured out what the difficulty had been and would have explaiend. As for the Peano axioms for teachers, I&#8217;m not sure that it is such a great idea, it&#8217;s a bit dry. Maybe they need more practical discussions about the difficulties that the students have with arithmetics and how to help them.</p>
<p>To Mgccl: 4th grade calculus? What are they going to do with it? Isn&#8217;t it better to develop some problem solving skills?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why is arithmetic difficult? by Alexandre Borovik</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/why-is-arithmetic-difficult/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexandre Borovik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 04:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-169</guid>
		<description>I slightly changed Axioms, bringing them closer to original form proposed by Peano: in most modern books natural number start with 0, not with 1. Children start their arithmetic with 1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I slightly changed Axioms, bringing them closer to original form proposed by Peano: in most modern books natural number start with 0, not with 1. Children start their arithmetic with 1.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why is arithmetic difficult? by Alexandre Borovik</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/why-is-arithmetic-difficult/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexandre Borovik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 04:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-168</guid>
		<description>Mgccl: I repeat again, formal arithmetic should be taught to TEACHERS, not pupils -- because at least some of the pupils are likely to reinvent it is intuitive level. I emphasise , Peano arithmetic is just simple principles of counting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mgccl: I repeat again, formal arithmetic should be taught to TEACHERS, not pupils &#8212; because at least some of the pupils are likely to reinvent it is intuitive level. I emphasise , Peano arithmetic is just simple principles of counting.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why is arithmetic difficult? by Mgccl</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/why-is-arithmetic-difficult/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Mgccl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 23:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-167</guid>
		<description>That might not be an IDEAL way of making student thinking numbers like that. I believe students in their early days should learn math though intuition.
But since 4th grade calculus is possible... that won't be such a bad idea...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That might not be an IDEAL way of making student thinking numbers like that. I believe students in their early days should learn math though intuition.<br />
But since 4th grade calculus is possible&#8230; that won&#8217;t be such a bad idea&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Meritocratic eliticism by Nick</title>
		<link>http://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/meritocratic-eliticism/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micromath.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-166</guid>
		<description>I'll wait with patience.
I don't want to start a "flame war" here on the FMSh topic, unfortunately
English is a third language for me (at the level of its' command) is so when I reread what I write frequently I get a feeling of being rude and impolite.
So please, forgive me.
Back for FMSh topic:
When I was at school I also enlisted to correspondence school of MIPT (ЗФТШ) and also started going to their Evening school in physics and math. I think this model as well as a model of evening school at math faculty in MGU (малый мехмат) can be better adopted in the West, then special school or kind of boarding school.
It seems to me, though I enjoyed going to FMSh and have only good memories from it that such model is pure soviet creature and may be working only in soviet society.
The topic is much broader than "becoming a mathematician".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll wait with patience.<br />
I don&#8217;t want to start a &#8220;flame war&#8221; here on the FMSh topic, unfortunately<br />
English is a third language for me (at the level of its&#8217; command) is so when I reread what I write frequently I get a feeling of being rude and impolite.<br />
So please, forgive me.<br />
Back for FMSh topic:<br />
When I was at school I also enlisted to correspondence school of MIPT (ЗФТШ) and also started going to their Evening school in physics and math. I think this model as well as a model of evening school at math faculty in MGU (малый мехмат) can be better adopted in the West, then special school or kind of boarding school.<br />
It seems to me, though I enjoyed going to FMSh and have only good memories from it that such model is pure soviet creature and may be working only in soviet society.<br />
The topic is much broader than &#8220;becoming a mathematician&#8221;.</p>
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